This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!


Ângelo Abrantes
 

HI,

Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this screen reader.
My statement can be proven by its founder.
Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings" file?
Answer: 52.
How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
Answer: 108.
What does this big difference mean?
Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want the add-on translators to make a reflection on it.

Cheers
Ângelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.

--
Cordiais Cumprimentos
Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa <Portuguesa do NVDA


--
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vírus pelo software antivírus Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Brian's Mail list account
 

I suspect that this reflects the fact that nvda in itself is written by mostly paid people but add ons are not and hence the translation is going to be patchy.
Not presenting any fixes, but I've seen this sort of thing on other public domain type projects too.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ângelo Abrantes" <ampa4374@gmail.com>
To: <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 11:53 AM
Subject: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!


HI,

Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this screen reader.
My statement can be proven by its founder.
Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings" file?
Answer: 52.
How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
Answer: 108.
What does this big difference mean?
Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want the add-on translators to make a reflection on it.

Cheers
Ângelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.

--
Cordiais Cumprimentos
Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa <Portuguesa do NVDA


--
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vírus pelo software antivírus Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus





zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz
 

Hi,
As an NVDA translator, who translates NVDA to Croatian, polish, and helping with some Russian translations of addons, and coordinating work for Macedonian, I should say that this situation is mainly provoked by some factors:
On the one side, we have NV access with the priorities, and on other, we have developers and the fragmented NVDA community.
Some add-ons are just circulating in the French community, some just in Spanish, some just in Chinese, and some are in the wild.
e have also problems with adding addons to the translation system, and the procedure is very complex, due to the security risks and the situation that everything should be approved by NV access.
Maybe developers don't have motivation to make pull requests and follow strict procedures for every single addon inclusion in the system?
We should remind, first of all, who we are.
We are volunteers, who work for the community.
Blind people for the blind people, and we should support each other in these bad times, not just saying that something is bad, but we should motivate each other. We should communicate with each other and NV access, to make all the work smooth and to fill the translation system with the missing addons.
That's the message from me for today,
Best,
Zvonimir Stanecic, Croatian, Macedonian, polish and onoe of the Russian NVDA translators.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ângelo Abrantes
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 12:53 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!

HI,

Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this screen reader.
My statement can be proven by its founder.
Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings" file?
Answer: 52.
How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
Answer: 108.
What does this big difference mean?
Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want the add-on translators to make a reflection on it.

Cheers
Ângelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.

--
Cordiais Cumprimentos
Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa <Portuguesa do NVDA


--
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vírus pelo software antivírus Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Florian Beijers
 

You bring up a good point regarding these fragmented communities. Are there portals where these foreign-language addons are cataloged at all? I think a good way to get more attention paid to this is to at least have a place where all these are up to a point discoverable. Like ...the only French addon I even know of is NVDAExtentionGlobalPlugin, and that largely because it was translated to English up to a point. Does make one wonder if there are hidden gems that nobody knows about, and by finding those, the impetus for volunteers to translate these might spark more community interest for translation as a whole.

Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 13:20 schreef zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz <zvonimirek222@...>:

Hi,
As an NVDA translator, who translates NVDA to Croatian, polish, and helping with some Russian translations of addons, and coordinating work for Macedonian, I should say that this situation is mainly provoked by some factors:
On the one side, we have NV access with the priorities, and on other, we have developers and the fragmented NVDA community.
Some add-ons are just circulating in the French community, some just in Spanish, some just in Chinese, and some are in the wild.
e have also problems with adding addons to the translation system, and the procedure is very complex, due to the security risks and the situation that everything should be approved by NV access.
Maybe developers don't have motivation to make pull requests and follow strict procedures for every single addon inclusion in the system?
We should remind, first of all, who we are.
We are volunteers, who work for the community.
Blind people for the blind people, and we should support each other in these bad times, not just saying that something is bad, but we should motivate each other. We should communicate with each other and NV access, to make all the work smooth and to fill the translation system with the missing addons.
That's the message from me for today,
Best,
Zvonimir Stanecic, Croatian, Macedonian, polish and onoe of the Russian NVDA translators.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ângelo Abrantes
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 12:53 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!

HI,

Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this screen reader.
My statement can be proven by its founder.
Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings" file?
Answer: 52.
How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
Answer: 108.
What does this big difference mean?
Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want the add-on translators to make a reflection on it.

Cheers
Ângelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.

        --
Cordiais Cumprimentos
Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa <Portuguesa do NVDA


--
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vírus pelo software antivírus Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus













Doug Lee
 

I'm not as prolific in NVDA as I am elsewhere I'm sure... but searching for "NVDA" on https://www.dlee.org will net you links to all of the add-ons I personally write and maintain. Currently I count four that I have kept up
to date - Skype, TeamTalk, TeamSpeak, and Virtual Audio Cable (VAC); and one that I have not kept up to date, OpenTween. I try to announce all updates here on this list so people can find them.

The OpenTween add-on lags behind the others because I stopped following Twitter from my computer quite a while ago. I received one request to update that one this week or last, but I really don't know if it would have many
users if I did that. I'm probably about to find out. :-)

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 01:46:57PM +0200, Florian Beijers wrote:
You bring up a good point regarding these fragmented communities. Are
there portals where these foreign-language addons are cataloged at all?
I think a good way to get more attention paid to this is to at least
have a place where all these are up to a point discoverable. Like
...the only French addon I even know of is NVDAExtentionGlobalPlugin,
and that largely because it was translated to English up to a point.
Does make one wonder if there are hidden gems that nobody knows about,
and by finding those, the impetus for volunteers to translate these
might spark more community interest for translation as a whole.

Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 13:20 schreef zvonimir staneÄiÄ, 9a5dsz
<[1]zvonimirek222@yandex.com>:

Hi,
As an NVDA translator, who translates NVDA to Croatian, polish, and
helping with some Russian translations of addons, and coordinating
work for Macedonian, I should say that this situation is mainly
provoked by some factors:
On the one side, we have NV access with the priorities, and on
other, we have developers and the fragmented NVDA community.
Some add-ons are just circulating in the French community, some just
in Spanish, some just in Chinese, and some are in the wild.
e have also problems with adding addons to the translation system,
and the procedure is very complex, due to the security risks and the
situation that everything should be approved by NV access.
Maybe developers don't have motivation to make pull requests and
follow strict procedures for every single addon inclusion in the
system?
We should remind, first of all, who we are.
We are volunteers, who work for the community.
Blind people for the blind people, and we should support each other
in these bad times, not just saying that something is bad, but we
should motivate each other. We should communicate with each other
and NV access, to make all the work smooth and to fill the
translation system with the missing addons.
That's the message from me for today,
Best,
Zvonimir Stanecic, Croatian, Macedonian, polish and onoe of the
Russian NVDA translators.
-----Original Message-----
From: [2]nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<[3]nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ãngelo Abrantes
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 12:53 PM
To: [4]nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect
on this unusual but real situation!
HI,
Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this
screen reader.
My statement can be proven by its founder.
Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings"
file?
Answer: 52.
How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
Answer: 108.
What does this big difference mean?
Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want
the add-on translators to make a reflection on it.
Cheers
Ãngelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.
    --
Cordiais Cumprimentos
Ãngelo Abrantes, Equipa <Portuguesa do NVDA
--
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vÃrus pelo software
antivÃrus Avast.
[5]https://www.avast.com/antivirus



References

1. mailto:zvonimirek222@yandex.com
2. mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
3. mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
4. mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
5. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
6. https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/message/16185
7. mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io?subject=Re: Re: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!
8. mailto:florianbeijers@gmail.com?subject=Private: Re: Re: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!
9. https://groups.io/mt/84329827/739029
10. https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/post
11. https://addons.nvda-project.org/
12. https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons
13. https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/wiki
14. https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/editsub/739029
15. mailto:nvda-addons+owner@nvda-addons.groups.io
16. https://nvda-addons.groups.io/g/nvda-addons/leave/1627758/739029/983816227/xyzzy

--
Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com
"It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both
incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by
dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper." --Rod Serling


zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz
 

Hi,

For example,

We have community sites like:

www.nvda.it

There i salso a site of the Spanish community, you can google for it.

We have also a French sites. You can just google for these

I don’t want to mention the Russian site, as they collect all possible addons from the wild, even with the pirated software.

I don’t want to mention some things which I saw in the wild.

 

From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Florian Beijers
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 1:47 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!

 

You bring up a good point regarding these fragmented communities. Are there portals where these foreign-language addons are cataloged at all? I think a good way to get more attention paid to this is to at least have a place where all these are up to a point discoverable. Like ...the only French addon I even know of is NVDAExtentionGlobalPlugin, and that largely because it was translated to English up to a point. Does make one wonder if there are hidden gems that nobody knows about, and by finding those, the impetus for volunteers to translate these might spark more community interest for translation as a whole.

 

Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 13:20 schreef zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz <zvonimirek222@...>:

Hi,
As an NVDA translator, who translates NVDA to Croatian, polish, and helping with some Russian translations of addons, and coordinating work for Macedonian, I should say that this situation is mainly provoked by some factors:
On the one side, we have NV access with the priorities, and on other, we have developers and the fragmented NVDA community.
Some add-ons are just circulating in the French community, some just in Spanish, some just in Chinese, and some are in the wild.
e have also problems with adding addons to the translation system, and the procedure is very complex, due to the security risks and the situation that everything should be approved by NV access.
Maybe developers don't have motivation to make pull requests and follow strict procedures for every single addon inclusion in the system?
We should remind, first of all, who we are.
We are volunteers, who work for the community.
Blind people for the blind people, and we should support each other in these bad times, not just saying that something is bad, but we should motivate each other. We should communicate with each other and NV access, to make all the work smooth and to fill the translation system with the missing addons.
That's the message from me for today,
Best,
Zvonimir Stanecic, Croatian, Macedonian, polish and onoe of the Russian NVDA translators.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ângelo Abrantes
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 12:53 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!

HI,

Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this screen reader.
My statement can be proven by its founder.
Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings" file?
Answer: 52.
How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
Answer: 108.
What does this big difference mean?
Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want the add-on translators to make a reflection on it.

Cheers
Ângelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.

        --
Cordiais Cumprimentos
Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa <Portuguesa do NVDA


--
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vírus pelo software antivírus Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus












Noelia Ruiz
 

Hello:

I'm not a translator, just a person who maintains several add-ons.
These are my ideas for now, also considering messages from this
thread:

1. It would be desirable that more add-ons are registered in the
community website and in the translations system. If the planned store
is adopted, hope this can be more simple. There are programs using
plugins that have some kind of store (plugins manager, package stores
like npm, for example), that don't require reviews to be available. I
think that the main source of difficulties for an add-on to be
included, firstly on the website, is that they require a review, and
now also pull request merges from NV Access. But if reviews are
required, probably we cannot expect that the website includes all
available add-ons, since not all of them will spark interest from
community, and in some cases they maybe specialized and for this
reason maybe possible that volunteers cannot review them. Even, if
just add-ons maintained were included on the website, I think that the
number wouldn't be 108.
I don't know criteria followed by other communities, but the number of
accepted add-ons maydeppend on the review process. It could be not
required, like done in other systems, though I don't know if this is
what people prefer, nor if NV Access would like to accept or not,
given that we're talking about a website ultimately managed by them.
2. The translations system, imo worked very well when Mesar was in
charge of the system. It's known that I'm Mesar fan, but objectively I
think that we can affirm this. When Mesar left NVDA's work, I think
this implied issues in the system, fixed as we know, but not always
enough quickly, and now that NV Access is responsible of the server,
as mentioned they have their priorities and work. They are a small
organization and this should be understood, though hope they reply to
clarify things ASAP to avoid frustrations and adjust expectatives.
3. Talking from a personal perspective, some of my add-ons won't spark
interest in this community and I stopped maintaining this. I maintain
about 8 add-ons and I don't have any issues with the translation
system, except for one of them, not registered yet.

Anyway, the most important thing that I would like to highlight is
that, if a review process is required, then we cannot expect that all
add-ons are accepted. We are volunteers and if we want to post an
article in a daily news for instance, there will be criteria and a
procedure that we can decide to accept, change (if possible) or
refuse. I think that the community should be as open as possible, but
reviews require time and a hard work.
Cheers

2021-07-20 13:46 GMT+02:00, Florian Beijers <florianbeijers@gmail.com>:

You bring up a good point regarding these fragmented communities. Are there
portals where these foreign-language addons are cataloged at all? I think a
good way to get more attention paid to this is to at least have a place
where all these are up to a point discoverable. Like ...the only French
addon I even know of is NVDAExtentionGlobalPlugin, and that largely because
it was translated to English up to a point. Does make one wonder if there
are hidden gems that nobody knows about, and by finding those, the impetus
for volunteers to translate these might spark more community interest for
translation as a whole.

Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 13:20 schreef zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz <
zvonimirek222@yandex.com>:

Hi,
As an NVDA translator, who translates NVDA to Croatian, polish, and
helping with some Russian translations of addons, and coordinating work
for
Macedonian, I should say that this situation is mainly provoked by some
factors:
On the one side, we have NV access with the priorities, and on other, we
have developers and the fragmented NVDA community.
Some add-ons are just circulating in the French community, some just in
Spanish, some just in Chinese, and some are in the wild.
e have also problems with adding addons to the translation system, and
the
procedure is very complex, due to the security risks and the situation
that
everything should be approved by NV access.
Maybe developers don't have motivation to make pull requests and follow
strict procedures for every single addon inclusion in the system?
We should remind, first of all, who we are.
We are volunteers, who work for the community.
Blind people for the blind people, and we should support each other in
these bad times, not just saying that something is bad, but we should
motivate each other. We should communicate with each other and NV access,
to make all the work smooth and to fill the translation system with the
missing addons.
That's the message from me for today,
Best,
Zvonimir Stanecic, Croatian, Macedonian, polish and onoe of the Russian
NVDA translators.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Ângelo Abrantes
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 12:53 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on
this unusual but real situation!

HI,

Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this screen
reader.
My statement can be proven by its founder.
Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings" file?
Answer: 52.
How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
Answer: 108.
What does this big difference mean?
Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want the
add-on translators to make a reflection on it.

Cheers
Ângelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.

--
Cordiais Cumprimentos
Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa <Portuguesa do NVDA


--
Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vírus pelo software antivírus
Avast.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

















Cyrille
 

Hello

The thread topic is becoming larger.
However, the initial question of Angelo was: why is there less than a half of the add-ons of the community website that are translated (or ready for translation)?

But Angelo, it's not up to the translators to make add-ons translatable, i.e. appear in a line of the settings file. The add-on appear in this file when they are integrated in the translation framework.
And it's the add-on's author decision to request to have his add-on translatable. Then it's up to some community members (Noelia and maybe other ones) with the author to handle this request (check for stable branche, forking the add-on, issue against mrconfig). At last, it's NVAccess responsibility to finalize this integration in the mrconfig repo.

3-4 add-ons are waiting for NVAccess' integration. And NVAccess does not proceed very quickly to their integration. Windows Magnifier has been integrated successfully quite recently (3-4 weeks ago) and various issues have been fixed by NVAccess in the translation framework.

Maybe some authors have recently requested the integration of a few add-ons in the framework on this list and they have not had an answer (yet). I would recommend to make the request on this list again.

But the vast majority of the 108-52 add-ons that are not part of the translation framework are not translatable because their author did not ask it on this list.

To conclude, we need to convince add-on authors more than translators. Maybe that's the opportunity for author that have not done so previously to request for their add-ons to be translated? Add-on authors, just let us know!

Cheeres,

Cyrille


 
De : "Noelia Ruiz"
A : nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Envoyé: mardi 20 Juillet 2021 14:19
Objet : Re: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!
 
Hello:

I'm not a translator, just a person who maintains several add-ons.
These are my ideas for now, also considering messages from this
thread:

1. It would be desirable that more add-ons are registered in the
community website and in the translations system. If the planned store
is adopted, hope this can be more simple. There are programs using
plugins that have some kind of store (plugins manager, package stores
like npm, for example), that don't require reviews to be available. I
think that the main source of difficulties for an add-on to be
included, firstly on the website, is that they require a review, and
now also pull request merges from NV Access. But if reviews are
required, probably we cannot expect that the website includes all
available add-ons, since not all of them will spark interest from
community, and in some cases they maybe specialized and for this
reason maybe possible that volunteers cannot review them. Even, if
just add-ons maintained were included on the website, I think that the
number wouldn't be 108.
I don't know criteria followed by other communities, but the number of
accepted add-ons maydeppend on the review process. It could be not
required, like done in other systems, though I don't know if this is
what people prefer, nor if NV Access would like to accept or not,
given that we're talking about a website ultimately managed by them.
2. The translations system, imo worked very well when Mesar was in
charge of the system. It's known that I'm Mesar fan, but objectively I
think that we can affirm this. When Mesar left NVDA's work, I think
this implied issues in the system, fixed as we know, but not always
enough quickly, and now that NV Access is responsible of the server,
as mentioned they have their priorities and work. They are a small
organization and this should be understood, though hope they reply to
clarify things ASAP to avoid frustrations and adjust expectatives.
3. Talking from a personal perspective, some of my add-ons won't spark
interest in this community and I stopped maintaining this. I maintain
about 8 add-ons and I don't have any issues with the translation
system, except for one of them, not registered yet.

Anyway, the most important thing that I would like to highlight is
that, if a review process is required, then we cannot expect that all
add-ons are accepted. We are volunteers and if we want to post an
article in a daily news for instance, there will be criteria and a
procedure that we can decide to accept, change (if possible) or
refuse. I think that the community should be as open as possible, but
reviews require time and a hard work.
Cheers

2021-07-20 13:46 GMT+02:00, Florian Beijers :
> You bring up a good point regarding these fragmented communities. Are there
> portals where these foreign-language addons are cataloged at all? I think a
> good way to get more attention paid to this is to at least have a place
> where all these are up to a point discoverable. Like ...the only French
> addon I even know of is NVDAExtentionGlobalPlugin, and that largely because
> it was translated to English up to a point. Does make one wonder if there
> are hidden gems that nobody knows about, and by finding those, the impetus
> for volunteers to translate these might spark more community interest for
> translation as a whole.
>
> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 13:20 schreef zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz <
> zvonimirek222@...>:
>
>> Hi,
>> As an NVDA translator, who translates NVDA to Croatian, polish, and
>> helping with some Russian translations of addons, and coordinating work
>> for
>> Macedonian, I should say that this situation is mainly provoked by some
>> factors:
>> On the one side, we have NV access with the priorities, and on other, we
>> have developers and the fragmented NVDA community.
>> Some add-ons are just circulating in the French community, some just in
>> Spanish, some just in Chinese, and some are in the wild.
>> e have also problems with adding addons to the translation system, and
>> the
>> procedure is very complex, due to the security risks and the situation
>> that
>> everything should be approved by NV access.
>> Maybe developers don't have motivation to make pull requests and follow
>> strict procedures for every single addon inclusion in the system?
>> We should remind, first of all, who we are.
>> We are volunteers, who work for the community.
>> Blind people for the blind people, and we should support each other in
>> these bad times, not just saying that something is bad, but we should
>> motivate each other. We should communicate with each other and NV access,
>> to make all the work smooth and to fill the translation system with the
>> missing addons.
>> That's the message from me for today,
>> Best,
>> Zvonimir Stanecic, Croatian, Macedonian, polish and onoe of the Russian
>> NVDA translators.
>>
>>

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
>>
>> On Behalf Of Ângelo Abrantes
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 12:53 PM
>> To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
>> Subject: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on
>> this unusual but real situation!
>>
>> HI,
>>
>> Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this screen
>> reader.
>> My statement can be proven by its founder.
>> Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
>> How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings" file?
>> Answer: 52.
>> How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
>> Answer: 108.
>> What does this big difference mean?
>> Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
>> I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want the
>> add-on translators to make a reflection on it.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Ângelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.
>>
>> --
>> Cordiais Cumprimentos
>> Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa >>
>>
>> --
>> Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vírus pelo software antivírus
>> Avast.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>




 


Noelia Ruiz
 

Also, there are add-ons translated outside the Nv Access translation system. But for me Cyrille"s message brings a perfect answer to the initial question.

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 20 jul 2021, a las 14:44, Cyrille via groups.io <cyrille.bougot2@...> escribió:


Hello

The thread topic is becoming larger.
However, the initial question of Angelo was: why is there less than a half of the add-ons of the community website that are translated (or ready for translation)?

But Angelo, it's not up to the translators to make add-ons translatable, i.e. appear in a line of the settings file. The add-on appear in this file when they are integrated in the translation framework.
And it's the add-on's author decision to request to have his add-on translatable. Then it's up to some community members (Noelia and maybe other ones) with the author to handle this request (check for stable branche, forking the add-on, issue against mrconfig). At last, it's NVAccess responsibility to finalize this integration in the mrconfig repo.

3-4 add-ons are waiting for NVAccess' integration. And NVAccess does not proceed very quickly to their integration. Windows Magnifier has been integrated successfully quite recently (3-4 weeks ago) and various issues have been fixed by NVAccess in the translation framework.

Maybe some authors have recently requested the integration of a few add-ons in the framework on this list and they have not had an answer (yet). I would recommend to make the request on this list again.

But the vast majority of the 108-52 add-ons that are not part of the translation framework are not translatable because their author did not ask it on this list.

To conclude, we need to convince add-on authors more than translators. Maybe that's the opportunity for author that have not done so previously to request for their add-ons to be translated? Add-on authors, just let us know!

Cheeres,

Cyrille


 
De : "Noelia Ruiz"
A : nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Envoyé: mardi 20 Juillet 2021 14:19
Objet : Re: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!
 
Hello:

I'm not a translator, just a person who maintains several add-ons.
These are my ideas for now, also considering messages from this
thread:

1. It would be desirable that more add-ons are registered in the
community website and in the translations system. If the planned store
is adopted, hope this can be more simple. There are programs using
plugins that have some kind of store (plugins manager, package stores
like npm, for example), that don't require reviews to be available. I
think that the main source of difficulties for an add-on to be
included, firstly on the website, is that they require a review, and
now also pull request merges from NV Access. But if reviews are
required, probably we cannot expect that the website includes all
available add-ons, since not all of them will spark interest from
community, and in some cases they maybe specialized and for this
reason maybe possible that volunteers cannot review them. Even, if
just add-ons maintained were included on the website, I think that the
number wouldn't be 108.
I don't know criteria followed by other communities, but the number of
accepted add-ons maydeppend on the review process. It could be not
required, like done in other systems, though I don't know if this is
what people prefer, nor if NV Access would like to accept or not,
given that we're talking about a website ultimately managed by them.
2. The translations system, imo worked very well when Mesar was in
charge of the system. It's known that I'm Mesar fan, but objectively I
think that we can affirm this. When Mesar left NVDA's work, I think
this implied issues in the system, fixed as we know, but not always
enough quickly, and now that NV Access is responsible of the server,
as mentioned they have their priorities and work. They are a small
organization and this should be understood, though hope they reply to
clarify things ASAP to avoid frustrations and adjust expectatives.
3. Talking from a personal perspective, some of my add-ons won't spark
interest in this community and I stopped maintaining this. I maintain
about 8 add-ons and I don't have any issues with the translation
system, except for one of them, not registered yet.

Anyway, the most important thing that I would like to highlight is
that, if a review process is required, then we cannot expect that all
add-ons are accepted. We are volunteers and if we want to post an
article in a daily news for instance, there will be criteria and a
procedure that we can decide to accept, change (if possible) or
refuse. I think that the community should be as open as possible, but
reviews require time and a hard work.
Cheers

2021-07-20 13:46 GMT+02:00, Florian Beijers :
> You bring up a good point regarding these fragmented communities. Are there
> portals where these foreign-language addons are cataloged at all? I think a
> good way to get more attention paid to this is to at least have a place
> where all these are up to a point discoverable. Like ...the only French
> addon I even know of is NVDAExtentionGlobalPlugin, and that largely because
> it was translated to English up to a point. Does make one wonder if there
> are hidden gems that nobody knows about, and by finding those, the impetus
> for volunteers to translate these might spark more community interest for
> translation as a whole.
>
> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 13:20 schreef zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz <
> zvonimirek222@...>:
>
>> Hi,
>> As an NVDA translator, who translates NVDA to Croatian, polish, and
>> helping with some Russian translations of addons, and coordinating work
>> for
>> Macedonian, I should say that this situation is mainly provoked by some
>> factors:
>> On the one side, we have NV access with the priorities, and on other, we
>> have developers and the fragmented NVDA community.
>> Some add-ons are just circulating in the French community, some just in
>> Spanish, some just in Chinese, and some are in the wild.
>> e have also problems with adding addons to the translation system, and
>> the
>> procedure is very complex, due to the security risks and the situation
>> that
>> everything should be approved by NV access.
>> Maybe developers don't have motivation to make pull requests and follow
>> strict procedures for every single addon inclusion in the system?
>> We should remind, first of all, who we are.
>> We are volunteers, who work for the community.
>> Blind people for the blind people, and we should support each other in
>> these bad times, not just saying that something is bad, but we should
>> motivate each other. We should communicate with each other and NV access,
>> to make all the work smooth and to fill the translation system with the
>> missing addons.
>> That's the message from me for today,
>> Best,
>> Zvonimir Stanecic, Croatian, Macedonian, polish and onoe of the Russian
>> NVDA translators.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
>>
>> On Behalf Of Ângelo Abrantes
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 12:53 PM
>> To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
>> Subject: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on
>> this unusual but real situation!
>>
>> HI,
>>
>> Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this screen
>> reader.
>> My statement can be proven by its founder.
>> Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
>> How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings" file?
>> Answer: 52.
>> How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
>> Answer: 108.
>> What does this big difference mean?
>> Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
>> I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want the
>> add-on translators to make a reflection on it.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Ângelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.
>>
>> --
>> Cordiais Cumprimentos
>> Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa >>
>>
>> --
>> Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vírus pelo software antivírus
>> Avast.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>




 


Cyrille
 

Yes, you're right Noelia.
I had forgotten the case of add-ons translated outside of NVAccess' framework.
However I think they are less than 10.

Cyrille
 
De : "Noelia Ruiz"
A : nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Envoyé: mardi 20 Juillet 2021 15:33
Objet : Re: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!
 
Also, there are add-ons translated outside the Nv Access translation system. But for me Cyrille"s message brings a perfect answer to the initial question.
 
Enviado desde mi iPhone
 

El 20 jul 2021, a las 14:44, Cyrille via groups.io <cyrille.bougot2@...> escribió:
 

Hello

The thread topic is becoming larger.
However, the initial question of Angelo was: why is there less than a half of the add-ons of the community website that are translated (or ready for translation)?

But Angelo, it's not up to the translators to make add-ons translatable, i.e. appear in a line of the settings file. The add-on appear in this file when they are integrated in the translation framework.
And it's the add-on's author decision to request to have his add-on translatable. Then it's up to some community members (Noelia and maybe other ones) with the author to handle this request (check for stable branche, forking the add-on, issue against mrconfig). At last, it's NVAccess responsibility to finalize this integration in the mrconfig repo.

3-4 add-ons are waiting for NVAccess' integration. And NVAccess does not proceed very quickly to their integration. Windows Magnifier has been integrated successfully quite recently (3-4 weeks ago) and various issues have been fixed by NVAccess in the translation framework.

Maybe some authors have recently requested the integration of a few add-ons in the framework on this list and they have not had an answer (yet). I would recommend to make the request on this list again.

But the vast majority of the 108-52 add-ons that are not part of the translation framework are not translatable because their author did not ask it on this list.

To conclude, we need to convince add-on authors more than translators. Maybe that's the opportunity for author that have not done so previously to request for their add-ons to be translated? Add-on authors, just let us know!

Cheeres,

Cyrille


 
De : "Noelia Ruiz"
A : nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Envoyé: mardi 20 Juillet 2021 14:19
Objet : Re: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!
 
Hello:

I'm not a translator, just a person who maintains several add-ons.
These are my ideas for now, also considering messages from this
thread:

1. It would be desirable that more add-ons are registered in the
community website and in the translations system. If the planned store
is adopted, hope this can be more simple. There are programs using
plugins that have some kind of store (plugins manager, package stores
like npm, for example), that don't require reviews to be available. I
think that the main source of difficulties for an add-on to be
included, firstly on the website, is that they require a review, and
now also pull request merges from NV Access. But if reviews are
required, probably we cannot expect that the website includes all
available add-ons, since not all of them will spark interest from
community, and in some cases they maybe specialized and for this
reason maybe possible that volunteers cannot review them. Even, if
just add-ons maintained were included on the website, I think that the
number wouldn't be 108.
I don't know criteria followed by other communities, but the number of
accepted add-ons maydeppend on the review process. It could be not
required, like done in other systems, though I don't know if this is
what people prefer, nor if NV Access would like to accept or not,
given that we're talking about a website ultimately managed by them.
2. The translations system, imo worked very well when Mesar was in
charge of the system. It's known that I'm Mesar fan, but objectively I
think that we can affirm this. When Mesar left NVDA's work, I think
this implied issues in the system, fixed as we know, but not always
enough quickly, and now that NV Access is responsible of the server,
as mentioned they have their priorities and work. They are a small
organization and this should be understood, though hope they reply to
clarify things ASAP to avoid frustrations and adjust expectatives.
3. Talking from a personal perspective, some of my add-ons won't spark
interest in this community and I stopped maintaining this. I maintain
about 8 add-ons and I don't have any issues with the translation
system, except for one of them, not registered yet.

Anyway, the most important thing that I would like to highlight is
that, if a review process is required, then we cannot expect that all
add-ons are accepted. We are volunteers and if we want to post an
article in a daily news for instance, there will be criteria and a
procedure that we can decide to accept, change (if possible) or
refuse. I think that the community should be as open as possible, but
reviews require time and a hard work.
Cheers

2021-07-20 13:46 GMT+02:00, Florian Beijers :
> You bring up a good point regarding these fragmented communities. Are there
> portals where these foreign-language addons are cataloged at all? I think a
> good way to get more attention paid to this is to at least have a place
> where all these are up to a point discoverable. Like ...the only French
> addon I even know of is NVDAExtentionGlobalPlugin, and that largely because
> it was translated to English up to a point. Does make one wonder if there
> are hidden gems that nobody knows about, and by finding those, the impetus
> for volunteers to translate these might spark more community interest for
> translation as a whole.
>
> Op di 20 jul. 2021 om 13:20 schreef zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz <
> zvonimirek222@...>:
>
>> Hi,
>> As an NVDA translator, who translates NVDA to Croatian, polish, and
>> helping with some Russian translations of addons, and coordinating work
>> for
>> Macedonian, I should say that this situation is mainly provoked by some
>> factors:
>> On the one side, we have NV access with the priorities, and on other, we
>> have developers and the fragmented NVDA community.
>> Some add-ons are just circulating in the French community, some just in
>> Spanish, some just in Chinese, and some are in the wild.
>> e have also problems with adding addons to the translation system, and
>> the
>> procedure is very complex, due to the security risks and the situation
>> that
>> everything should be approved by NV access.
>> Maybe developers don't have motivation to make pull requests and follow
>> strict procedures for every single addon inclusion in the system?
>> We should remind, first of all, who we are.
>> We are volunteers, who work for the community.
>> Blind people for the blind people, and we should support each other in
>> these bad times, not just saying that something is bad, but we should
>> motivate each other. We should communicate with each other and NV access,
>> to make all the work smooth and to fill the translation system with the
>> missing addons.
>> That's the message from me for today,
>> Best,
>> Zvonimir Stanecic, Croatian, Macedonian, polish and onoe of the Russian
>> NVDA translators.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
>>
>> On Behalf Of Ângelo Abrantes
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 12:53 PM
>> To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
>> Subject: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on
>> this unusual but real situation!
>>
>> HI,
>>
>> Almost since the beginning of NVDA, I am a contributor to this screen
>> reader.
>> My statement can be proven by its founder.
>> Now, let's look at the facts that are making me quite upset:
>> How many add-ons are registered for translation on the "Settings" file?
>> Answer: 52.
>> How many add-ons can we find on the official add-ons page?
>> Answer: 108.
>> What does this big difference mean?
>> Is the NVDA a screen reader directed to the world?
>> I will not say anything else on this subject, because I just want the
>> add-on translators to make a reflection on it.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Ângelo Abrantes, Portuguese NVDA team.
>>
>> --
>> Cordiais Cumprimentos
>> Ângelo Abrantes, Equipa >>
>>
>> --
>> Este e-mail foi verificado em termos de vírus pelo software antivírus
>> Avast.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>




 


Simone Dal Maso
 

Unfortunately there is also another point, it is really difficult to mantain an unofficial website of addons.

In Italy we started really soon to mantain a web site with a big addon list, later the central addon site was born, so it no longer made sense to keep our list, also because it became increasingly difficult to keep it updated and users rightly complained that the international one had the most updated versions.
So we stopped, except for 3 4 Italian addons.
It turned out to be a wrong choice because at this moment the central site does not give guarantees and above all does not contain all the components that one would expect.

So we will start again, a bit like they do in France and Spain, there is no choice.


zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz
 

Hi simone,
And that is the weakest side of our community.
Instead of the separation, we should talk to each other, find th possible solution with NV access, and go on the right way.
Best,
Zvonimir

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Simone Dal Maso
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 4:21 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!

Unfortunately there is also another point, it is really difficult to mantain an unofficial website of addons.

In Italy we started really soon to mantain a web site with a big addon list, later the central addon site was born, so it no longer made sense to keep our list, also because it became increasingly difficult to keep it updated and users rightly complained that the international one had the most updated versions.
So we stopped, except for 3 4 Italian addons.
It turned out to be a wrong choice because at this moment the central site does not give guarantees and above all does not contain all the components that one would expect.

So we will start again, a bit like they do in France and Spain, there is no choice.


Noelia Ruiz
 

Hello, despite add-ons maintained in other communities, can you mention add-ons not included on the website supported on this list that should be updated/included? Why are not included and how your process for the italian website is different respect the process used here?
Cheers

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 20 jul 2021, a las 16:21, Simone Dal Maso <simone.dalmaso@gmail.com> escribió:

Unfortunately there is also another point, it is really difficult to mantain an unofficial website of addons.

In Italy we started really soon to mantain a web site with a big addon list, later the central addon site was born, so it no longer made sense to keep our list, also because it became increasingly difficult to keep it updated and users rightly complained that the international one had the most updated versions.
So we stopped, except for 3 4 Italian addons.
It turned out to be a wrong choice because at this moment the central site does not give guarantees and above all does not contain all the components that one would expect.

So we will start again, a bit like they do in France and Spain, there is no choice.







 

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 10:21 AM, Simone Dal Maso wrote:
the central site does not give guarantees and above all does not contain all the components that one would expect.
-
I've just joined this list, and as someone who doesn't code I don't expect to add much, or often, but this particular issue is near and dear to my heart.
 
I have been saying on the NVDA list that there truly needs to be an real Add-On Central page which is divided into Official/Vetted/Reviewed and Unvetted/Use At Your Own Risk sections.  The former would be very much like the official add-ons page that exists today.  The latter would be where any add-on author who wished to submit something that did what it claimed to do at the time of submission, after a cursory review (if any), could place add-ons they'd like to share.

There are add-ons that have been circulating in the wild, and I only know directly about the ones in English but am aware of others in other languages, for years that people find useful.  Their authors, for whatever reason, do not wish to submit their work to the review process, and given what's already been mentioned here that's a completely valid choice.  Many were developed as tools to make that individual's life more convenient, with no advance intention of being presented to the world, but word of mouth spread and the author shared and here we are.

NVDA users are all adults who should be able to understand the concept of use at your own risk (AYOR).  In fact, many who are using these add-ons already do because that's what they're doing.  There are no guarantees of fitness, there has been no formal review, they just do what they are supposed to do.

It would be a major service to the world user community for there to be a place, one place, and that one place associated with the "official" add-ons but clearly marked as housing a different class of add on, for authors to submit their "quick and dirty" work that works beautifully for inclusion.  It is a grand PITA to locate some of these that do get asked about occasionally, many of which have been passed cyber-hand to cyber-hand.  They should have a permanent home.

Some authors will not even choose to use that AYOR repository, but that's their choice.  But if it were available it could be very handy indeed.


 

Hi Brian,

We sort of do have a version of that – add-ons under development, but that’s mostly for ones just approved for distribution. This was used a lot at a time when add-ons community was in charge of maintaining the official add-on files repository (mostly I and Noelia managed the repo then).

As for the overall thread and ideas presented, I imagine the add-ons store will address some of the concerns raised here. The idea at the moment is to let authors publish add-ons, let checks be performed automatically, then get the add-ons published, all using GitHub Actions (if I remember things correctly). There will be times when folks might be asked to review things, but I expect human review requests will be less frequent.

One of the examples of an ideal solution that is sought by the community is Python Package Index (PyPI) where folks can distribute Python packages. Similar to PyPI, the future add-on store would allow packages to be published anytime. The internal mechanism for the store is inspired by Windows Package Manager (winget) repository where people submit pull requests to add updated packages (believe it or not, NVDA is listed in that repo).

A few weeks ago I proposed something similar to what is being discussed: encouraging people to register add-ons on community add-ons website. Although sidetracked due to Windows 11, the proposal remains: ask authors of add-ons not listed on community add-ons website to submit PR’s to add-on files repo. At least that’s a start (for now), but we also need to navigate the vast world that is getting add-ons into the hands of language communities, involving translations data exchange scripts defined almost a decade ago and now showing its age – the history of add-ons community is intimately tied to how NvDA translations have changed over the years (a few days ago I posted the archive of the old Freelists version of this mailing list that stretches back to 2013, which can be found in our forum’s files section).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 7:34 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] This message is so that all users can reflect on this unusual but real situation!

 

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 10:21 AM, Simone Dal Maso wrote:

the central site does not give guarantees and above all does not contain all the components that one would expect.

-
I've just joined this list, and as someone who doesn't code I don't expect to add much, or often, but this particular issue is near and dear to my heart.
 
I have been saying on the NVDA list that there truly needs to be an real Add-On Central page which is divided into Official/Vetted/Reviewed and Unvetted/Use At Your Own Risk sections.  The former would be very much like the official add-ons page that exists today.  The latter would be where any add-on author who wished to submit something that did what it claimed to do at the time of submission, after a cursory review (if any), could place add-ons they'd like to share.

There are add-ons that have been circulating in the wild, and I only know directly about the ones in English but am aware of others in other languages, for years that people find useful.  Their authors, for whatever reason, do not wish to submit their work to the review process, and given what's already been mentioned here that's a completely valid choice.  Many were developed as tools to make that individual's life more convenient, with no advance intention of being presented to the world, but word of mouth spread and the author shared and here we are.

NVDA users are all adults who should be able to understand the concept of use at your own risk (AYOR).  In fact, many who are using these add-ons already do because that's what they're doing.  There are no guarantees of fitness, there has been no formal review, they just do what they are supposed to do.

It would be a major service to the world user community for there to be a place, one place, and that one place associated with the "official" add-ons but clearly marked as housing a different class of add on, for authors to submit their "quick and dirty" work that works beautifully for inclusion.  It is a grand PITA to locate some of these that do get asked about occasionally, many of which have been passed cyber-hand to cyber-hand.  They should have a permanent home.

Some authors will not even choose to use that AYOR repository, but that's their choice.  But if it were available it could be very handy indeed.


 

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 10:30 AM, zvonimir stanečić, 9a5dsz wrote:
Instead of the separation, we should talk to each other, find th possible solution with NV access, and go on the right way.
-
I have little doubt that a truly centralized repository for official and AYOR add-ons would also result in at least some AYORs becoming official over time.

Visibility increases conversations, and you're absolutely right that those are the foundation when it comes to add-on sharing.


Noelia Ruiz
 

Hello, I'd like to point that the website has several sections, one of
them for add-ons under development. To see if add-ons do what are
supposed to do, some quick review is needed. Years ago the review
process was changed and deep review was not required. Even I'm
thinking on an add-on included in the website that had a conflicting
command. What I mean is that reviews aren't very exhaustive for the
official website.
Of course authors may choose not to include their add-ons here, and I
think that one of the reasons for this decission maybe that it's a
requirement that doesn't bring a big benefit, so they have to do an
extra work without visible advantages.
I choose the website supported by this list since at least authors
should be informed when their add-ons are included here. I have seen
some of my add-ons in a repo where they were shared without a previous
notice, with my name, and also old add-ons not maintained or even with
wrong authors.
Everybody is free to share whatever and wherever, but personally I
choose only this website, and add-ons hosted on the italian webpage,
since maintainers have usually asked if the author wish to share the
add-ons in the corresponding webpages. I don't know, but maybe other
repositories have more add-ons since maintainers of the website share
add-ons without a previous notice. I have seen this just in a repo,
though I don't know what criteria follow other websites.
Cheers

2021-07-20 16:34 GMT+02:00, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com>:

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 10:21 AM, Simone Dal Maso wrote:


the central site does not give guarantees and above all does not contain
all the components that one would expect.
-
I've just joined this list, and as someone who doesn't code I don't expect
to add much, or often, but this particular issue is near and dear to my
heart.

I have been saying on the NVDA list that there truly needs to be an real
Add-On Central page which is divided into Official/Vetted/Reviewed and
Unvetted/Use At Your Own Risk sections.  The former would be very much like
the official add-ons page that exists today.  The latter would be where any
add-on author who wished to submit something that did what it claimed to do
at the time of submission, after a cursory review (if any), could place
add-ons they'd like to share.

There are add-ons that have been circulating in the wild, and I only know
directly about the ones in English but am aware of others in other
languages, for years that people find useful.  Their authors, for whatever
reason, do not wish to submit their work to the review process, and given
what's already been mentioned here that's a completely valid choice.  Many
were developed as tools to make that individual's life more convenient, with
no advance intention of being presented to the world, but word of mouth
spread and the author shared and here we are.

NVDA users are all adults who should be able to understand the concept of
use at your own risk (AYOR).  In fact, many who are using these add-ons
already do because that's what they're doing.  There are no guarantees of
fitness, there has been no formal review, they just do what they are
supposed to do.

It would be a major service to the world user community for there to be a
place, one place, and that one place associated with the "official" add-ons
but clearly marked as housing a different class of add on, for authors to
submit their "quick and dirty" work that works beautifully for inclusion.
It is a grand PITA to locate some of these that do get asked about
occasionally, many of which have been passed cyber-hand to cyber-hand.  They
should have a permanent home.

Some authors will not even choose to use that AYOR repository, but that's
their choice.  But if it were available it could be very handy indeed.






 

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 11:04 AM, Noelia Ruiz wrote:
Hello, I'd like to point that the website has several sections, one of
them for add-ons under development. To see if add-ons do what are
supposed to do, some quick review is needed.
-
Which is still, as far as I'm concerned, a part of the review pipeline.

I'm very well aware of that page, but the stuff that is there is a part of the review process, even if it's early stage and not "officially blessed." What I'm lobbying for is a similar page, affiliated with the current NVDA Add-Ons pages, that would include home-grown, unreviewed, add-ons that their respective authors would like to share without any expectation of ever undergoing review.  End users would have to realize, and a banner at the top of that page should clearly state, that use of these add ons is entirely at your own risk and they could drop out of support at any random point in time.  The only requirement I'd really like to see with that is the inclusion the source code for those add-ons, not only so someone so inclined could review it for themselves prior to use, but also so someone else could pick it up and run with it should the original developer disappear or see it as the seed for a much grander related add-on.  They should be considered open-source and freely available for modification if you do put something there.


Rui Fontes
 

Hello!


Here is my position:

1 - I agree with the idea of Brian Vogel of creating a centralized repository of add-ons with two categories, tested, reviewd and approved by NVAccess and some users designed by them, and a free category where any developer can post their add-ons.


2 - An add-on, to be elegible to be moved from the free category to the oficial one, must be able to be translated aside the other parameters actually in use.

This is to follow the NVAccess statement in its webpage:

NVDA: The free software empowering blind people world wide


The add-ons are a important part of NVDA and so they must be worldwide, meaning it must be translatable!


3 - Some people do not submit his work by several reasons, and some examples are the complexity of the add-on and the subjective judgement of its utility...

For me, no one should make judgements like these... If the add-on was made was because was usefull at least for one people, and any reviewer should judge its interest for the community...


4 - Any developer can review add-ons, but it will be necessary that someone from, or designated by NVAccess have the final word...

It will be recommended that one of those peoples make a review, when possible, if requested by several people or if the add-on is spreadly used. For this will be necessary to create a downloads counter...


5 - Logically some add-ons, in spite of its ability to be translated, will never be translated...

One good example is software that is not used by a NVDA community, like by instance Station Play List and bitchi, softwares not used by the portuguese spoken community...


Best regartds,


Rui Fontes

NVDA portuguese team






Às 15:34 de 20/07/2021, Brian Vogel escreveu:

On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 10:21 AM, Simone Dal Maso wrote:
the central site does not give guarantees and above all does not contain all the components that one would expect.
-
I've just joined this list, and as someone who doesn't code I don't expect to add much, or often, but this particular issue is near and dear to my heart.
 
I have been saying on the NVDA list that there truly needs to be an real Add-On Central page which is divided into Official/Vetted/Reviewed and Unvetted/Use At Your Own Risk sections.  The former would be very much like the official add-ons page that exists today.  The latter would be where any add-on author who wished to submit something that did what it claimed to do at the time of submission, after a cursory review (if any), could place add-ons they'd like to share.

There are add-ons that have been circulating in the wild, and I only know directly about the ones in English but am aware of others in other languages, for years that people find useful.  Their authors, for whatever reason, do not wish to submit their work to the review process, and given what's already been mentioned here that's a completely valid choice.  Many were developed as tools to make that individual's life more convenient, with no advance intention of being presented to the world, but word of mouth spread and the author shared and here we are.

NVDA users are all adults who should be able to understand the concept of use at your own risk (AYOR).  In fact, many who are using these add-ons already do because that's what they're doing.  There are no guarantees of fitness, there has been no formal review, they just do what they are supposed to do.

It would be a major service to the world user community for there to be a place, one place, and that one place associated with the "official" add-ons but clearly marked as housing a different class of add on, for authors to submit their "quick and dirty" work that works beautifully for inclusion.  It is a grand PITA to locate some of these that do get asked about occasionally, many of which have been passed cyber-hand to cyber-hand.  They should have a permanent home.

Some authors will not even choose to use that AYOR repository, but that's their choice.  But if it were available it could be very handy indeed.


Noelia Ruiz
 

Hello, download counters are still available, though, as you
mentioned, an add-on maybe very interesting and even completely needed
though it's not very used. So, reviews will need to be prioritized,
but the number of downloads, imo shouln't be the most important
factor.
Also, a problem with reviews maybe availability or interest of
reviewers. For example, in the wiki there's an add-on reviewed by
Alberto buffolino, but we think it maybe convenient that a Chinese
user makes a furter review since the add-on has specific features for
this language.
In fact a free site to post add-ons is still this list, though the
wiki or even websites can be used, considering that even two similar
add-ons by different authors maybe posted. This brings the question of
how to select them.
To move forward, here's the proposed add-on store submission, which we
can consider to provide feedback based on planned work:

https://github.com/nvaccess/addon-store-submission

2021-07-20 17:28 GMT+02:00, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>:

Hello!


Here is my position:

1 - I agree with the idea of Brian Vogel of creating a centralized
repository of add-ons with two categories, tested, reviewd and approved
by NVAccess and some users designed by them, and a free category where
any developer can post their add-ons.


2 - An add-on, to be elegible to be moved from the free category to the
oficial one, must be able to be translated aside the other parameters
actually in use.

This is to follow the NVAccess statement in its webpage:

NVDA: The free software empowering blind people world wide


The add-ons are a important part of NVDA and so they must be worldwide,
meaning it must be translatable!


3 - Some people do not submit his work by several reasons, and some
examples are the complexity of the add-on and the subjective judgement
of its utility...

For me, no one should make judgements like these... If the add-on was
made was because was usefull at least for one people, and any reviewer
should judge its interest for the community...


4 - Any developer can review add-ons, but it will be necessary that
someone from, or designated by NVAccess have the final word...

It will be recommended that one of those peoples make a review, when
possible, if requested by several people or if the add-on is spreadly
used. For this will be necessary to create a downloads counter...


5 - Logically some add-ons, in spite of its ability to be translated,
will never be translated...

One good example is software that is not used by a NVDA community, like
by instance Station Play List and bitchi, softwares not used by the
portuguese spoken community...


Best regartds,


Rui Fontes

NVDA portuguese team






Às 15:34 de 20/07/2021, Brian Vogel escreveu:
On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 10:21 AM, Simone Dal Maso wrote:

the central site does not give guarantees and above all does not
contain all the components that one would expect.

-
I've just joined this list, and as someone who doesn't code I don't
expect to add much, or often, but this particular issue is near and
dear to my heart.

I have been saying on the NVDA list that there truly needs to be an
real Add-On Central page which is divided into
Official/Vetted/Reviewed and Unvetted/Use At Your Own Risk sections.
The former would be very much like the official add-ons page that
exists today.  The latter would be where any add-on author who wished
to submit something that did what it claimed to do at the time of
submission, after a cursory review (if any), could place add-ons
they'd like to share.

There are add-ons that have been circulating in the wild, and I only
know directly about the ones in English but am aware of others in
other languages, for years that people find useful. Their authors, for
whatever reason, do not wish to submit their work to the review
process, and given what's already been mentioned here that's a
completely valid choice.  Many were developed as tools to make that
individual's life more convenient, with no advance intention of being
presented to the world, but word of mouth spread and the author shared
and here we are.

NVDA users are all adults who should be able to understand the concept
of use at your own risk (AYOR).  In fact, many who are using these
add-ons already do because that's what they're doing. There are no
guarantees of fitness, there has been no formal review, they just do
what they are supposed to do.

It would be a major service to the world user community for there to
be a place, one place, and that one place associated with the
"official" add-ons but clearly marked as housing a different class of
add on, for authors to submit their "quick and dirty" work that works
beautifully for inclusion.  It is a grand PITA to locate some of these
that do get asked about occasionally, many of which have been passed
cyber-hand to cyber-hand.  They should have a permanent home.

Some authors will not even choose to use that AYOR repository, but
that's their choice.  But if it were available it could be very handy
indeed.