Topics

Outlook Kludge

Jim Homme
 

Hi,

In Outlook, in many cases, Microsoft puts information such as what I would think should go in the accessibility description in the accessibility name. Making some intelligent decisions about what to put in the accessibility description would make using Outlook more efficient because there would be less to hear in the accessibility name. I was thinking of trying an addon, just for myself, to make working with Outlook more pleasant with this in mind. Keeping in mind that my knowledge of Python is limited, and I know this is a very open-ended question, what areas of Python do I need to know to accomplish just the task of parsing out what I do not want NVDA to speak, and the same for NVDA. Finally, would someone be kind enough to answer questions, and I promise to do my best to do my own research first.

 

Thanks.

 

Jim

 

 

==========

Jim Homme

Digital Accessibility

Bender Consulting Services

412-787-8567

https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions

 

 

James Scholes
 

Do you have an example? I'm not an Outlook user, and it may be that on the code front the Outlook devs are using the accessible description but it's just not being translated properly when NVDA receives the info. Or it could just be that they're doing it wrong full-stop.

Either way, some samples would be helpful, to determine where the splits might be, which ultimately will have a profound impact on the complexity of this task. For example, if you had a button with a name like:

"New: Send a new message"

You could simply split on the colon. If there is only ever a space, though, it instantly becomes more complicated. Make sense?

Regards,

James Scholes

On 14/01/2020 at 12:11 pm, Jim Homme wrote:
Hi,
In Outlook, in many cases, Microsoft puts information such as what I would think should go in the accessibility description in the accessibility name. Making some intelligent decisions about what to put in the accessibility description would make using Outlook more efficient because there would be less to hear in the accessibility name. I was thinking of trying an addon, just for myself, to make working with Outlook more pleasant with this in mind. Keeping in mind that my knowledge of Python is limited, and I know this is a very open-ended question, what areas of Python do I need to know to accomplish just the task of parsing out what I do not want NVDA to speak, and the same for NVDA. Finally, would someone be kind enough to answer questions, and I promise to do my best to do my own research first.
Thanks.
Jim
==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions

Jim Homme
 

Hi,
Here is a partial log. If you check out the name property, you will see that it contains a whole mess of stuff and the description contains nothing. Outlook has column headers with info below them, sort of like a table. I think it is called a multi-column list view. The name property is filled with a bunch of these column headers and associated data. I have messed around with Outlook settings and have reduced some of the information.

name: u'From James Scholes via Groups.Io, Subject Re: [nvda-addons] Outlook Kludge, Received Tue 1/14/2020 4:55 PM, Size 52 KB,'
role: ROLE_LISTITEM
states: STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SELECTABLE, STATE_FOCUSED, STATE_READONLY, STATE_SELECTED
isFocusable: True
hasFocus: True
Python object: <appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow object at 0x06592DF0>
Python class mro: (<class 'appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.RowWithFakeNavigation'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIA'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>, <class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class 'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: ''



Jim

 
==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Scholes via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 4:55 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] Outlook Kludge

Do you have an example? I'm not an Outlook user, and it may be that on the code front the Outlook devs are using the accessible description but it's just not being translated properly when NVDA receives the info. Or it could just be that they're doing it wrong full-stop.

Either way, some samples would be helpful, to determine where the splits might be, which ultimately will have a profound impact on the complexity of this task. For example, if you had a button with a name like:

"New: Send a new message"

You could simply split on the colon. If there is only ever a space, though, it instantly becomes more complicated. Make sense?

Regards,

James Scholes

On 14/01/2020 at 12:11 pm, Jim Homme wrote:
Hi,

In Outlook, in many cases, Microsoft puts information such as what I
would think should go in the accessibility description in the
accessibility name. Making some intelligent decisions about what to
put in the accessibility description would make using Outlook more
efficient because there would be less to hear in the accessibility
name. I was thinking of trying an addon, just for myself, to make
working with Outlook more pleasant with this in mind. Keeping in mind
that my knowledge of Python is limited, and I know this is a very
open-ended question, what areas of Python do I need to know to
accomplish just the task of parsing out what I do not want NVDA to
speak, and the same for NVDA. Finally, would someone be kind enough to
answer questions, and I promise to do my best to do my own research first.

Thanks.

Jim

==========

Jim Homme

Digital Accessibility

Bender Consulting Services

412-787-8567

https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-techn
ology-solutions

James Scholes
 

I think this is pretty normal for list items. For example, in the Task Manager, here's the name of an example item:

name: u'System Idle Process; PID: 0; Status: Running; Username: SYSTEM; CPU: 96 ; ... etc.

As you can see, all of the column values are rendered down into the accessible name. I think the questions to ask are:

1. Are there instances of this behaviour outside of the list view?
2. Is Outlook rendering these items as proper multi-column list items, that NVDA can report on accordingly? For instance, if you turn off the speaking of table headers in the document formatting options, are the "From", "Subject" et al headers still announced?
3. Why do you think this info should be placed in the accessible description, and how do you imagine that would be surfaced?

Regards,

James Scholes

On 15/01/2020 at 3:37 pm, Jim Homme wrote:
Hi,
Here is a partial log. If you check out the name property, you will see that it contains a whole mess of stuff and the description contains nothing. Outlook has column headers with info below them, sort of like a table. I think it is called a multi-column list view. The name property is filled with a bunch of these column headers and associated data. I have messed around with Outlook settings and have reduced some of the information.
name: u'From James Scholes via Groups.Io, Subject Re: [nvda-addons] Outlook Kludge, Received Tue 1/14/2020 4:55 PM, Size 52 KB,'
role: ROLE_LISTITEM
states: STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SELECTABLE, STATE_FOCUSED, STATE_READONLY, STATE_SELECTED
isFocusable: True
hasFocus: True
Python object: <appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow object at 0x06592DF0>
Python class mro: (<class 'appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.RowWithFakeNavigation'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIA'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>, <class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class 'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: ''
Jim
==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Scholes via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 4:55 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] Outlook Kludge
Do you have an example? I'm not an Outlook user, and it may be that on the code front the Outlook devs are using the accessible description but it's just not being translated properly when NVDA receives the info. Or it could just be that they're doing it wrong full-stop.
Either way, some samples would be helpful, to determine where the splits might be, which ultimately will have a profound impact on the complexity of this task. For example, if you had a button with a name like:
"New: Send a new message"
You could simply split on the colon. If there is only ever a space, though, it instantly becomes more complicated. Make sense?
Regards,
James Scholes
On 14/01/2020 at 12:11 pm, Jim Homme wrote:
Hi,

In Outlook, in many cases, Microsoft puts information such as what I
would think should go in the accessibility description in the
accessibility name. Making some intelligent decisions about what to
put in the accessibility description would make using Outlook more
efficient because there would be less to hear in the accessibility
name. I was thinking of trying an addon, just for myself, to make
working with Outlook more pleasant with this in mind. Keeping in mind
that my knowledge of Python is limited, and I know this is a very
open-ended question, what areas of Python do I need to know to
accomplish just the task of parsing out what I do not want NVDA to
speak, and the same for NVDA. Finally, would someone be kind enough to
answer questions, and I promise to do my best to do my own research first.

Thanks.

Jim

==========

Jim Homme

Digital Accessibility

Bender Consulting Services

412-787-8567

https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-techn
ology-solutions

Jim Homme
 

Hi James,
Good points. I have discovered that I can adjust the information by changing Outlook view settings. I will try to optimize that way.

Jim H

 
==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Scholes via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 4:48 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] Outlook Kludge

I think this is pretty normal for list items. For example, in the Task Manager, here's the name of an example item:

name: u'System Idle Process; PID: 0; Status: Running; Username: SYSTEM;
CPU: 96 ; ... etc.

As you can see, all of the column values are rendered down into the accessible name. I think the questions to ask are:

1. Are there instances of this behaviour outside of the list view?
2. Is Outlook rendering these items as proper multi-column list items, that NVDA can report on accordingly? For instance, if you turn off the speaking of table headers in the document formatting options, are the "From", "Subject" et al headers still announced?
3. Why do you think this info should be placed in the accessible description, and how do you imagine that would be surfaced?

Regards,

James Scholes

On 15/01/2020 at 3:37 pm, Jim Homme wrote:
Hi,
Here is a partial log. If you check out the name property, you will see that it contains a whole mess of stuff and the description contains nothing. Outlook has column headers with info below them, sort of like a table. I think it is called a multi-column list view. The name property is filled with a bunch of these column headers and associated data. I have messed around with Outlook settings and have reduced some of the information.

name: u'From James Scholes via Groups.Io, Subject Re: [nvda-addons] Outlook Kludge, Received Tue 1/14/2020 4:55 PM, Size 52 KB,'
role: ROLE_LISTITEM
states: STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SELECTABLE, STATE_FOCUSED,
STATE_READONLY, STATE_SELECTED
isFocusable: True
hasFocus: True
Python object: <appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow object at 0x06592DF0>
Python class mro: (<class 'appModules.outlook.UIAGridRow'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.behaviors.RowWithFakeNavigation'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.UIA.UIA'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>,
<class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class
'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)
description: ''



Jim


==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-techn
ology-solutions


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Scholes via
Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 4:55 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] Outlook Kludge

Do you have an example? I'm not an Outlook user, and it may be that on the code front the Outlook devs are using the accessible description but it's just not being translated properly when NVDA receives the info. Or it could just be that they're doing it wrong full-stop.

Either way, some samples would be helpful, to determine where the splits might be, which ultimately will have a profound impact on the complexity of this task. For example, if you had a button with a name like:

"New: Send a new message"

You could simply split on the colon. If there is only ever a space, though, it instantly becomes more complicated. Make sense?

Regards,

James Scholes

On 14/01/2020 at 12:11 pm, Jim Homme wrote:
Hi,

In Outlook, in many cases, Microsoft puts information such as what I
would think should go in the accessibility description in the
accessibility name. Making some intelligent decisions about what to
put in the accessibility description would make using Outlook more
efficient because there would be less to hear in the accessibility
name. I was thinking of trying an addon, just for myself, to make
working with Outlook more pleasant with this in mind. Keeping in mind
that my knowledge of Python is limited, and I know this is a very
open-ended question, what areas of Python do I need to know to
accomplish just the task of parsing out what I do not want NVDA to
speak, and the same for NVDA. Finally, would someone be kind enough
to answer questions, and I promise to do my best to do my own research first.

Thanks.

Jim

==========

Jim Homme

Digital Accessibility

Bender Consulting Services

412-787-8567

https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-tech
n
ology-solutions