NVDA updates: any ideas in additoin to expired root certificates?


 

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)

 

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24 hours across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph


Rui Fontes
 

Hello!


It is not a global issue...

I keep to check updates for NVDA e for add-ons without any problem.

However, some brazilian users report the same problem...


Also some users of our Vocalizer report problems when trying to activate licenses...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 16:34 de 01/10/2021, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)

 

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24 hours across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph


Noelia Ruiz
 

Hello, yesterday a person who is not subscribed to this list reported
me that cannot open this feed with readFeeds 12.0. I was thinking even
in adding the ability to specify an user agent for each specific feed,
but now I think that this maybe related to this issue, since this was
noticed by this person on September 29 and later.
This user is from Canada and I cannot reproduce the error using two
different computers with different IP. The reporter doesn't use
proxies and gets an error related to certificate, and tested also with
other add-ons disabled.
Can someone test readFeeds 12.0 with this URL?

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/rss

Thanks

2021-10-01 17:48 GMT+02:00, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>:

Hello!


It is not a global issue...

I keep to check updates for NVDA e for add-ons without any problem.

However, some brazilian users report the same problem...


Also some users of our Vocalizer report problems when trying to activate
licenses...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 16:34 de 01/10/2021, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error
messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)
<https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894>

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24 hours
across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph






 

Hi,
Root cause found: Python 3 has changed the SSL error structure, which Lukasz fixed in NVDA side in August. The suggested workaround for impacted users is:

1. Open Python Console.
2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

import updateCheck; updateCheck._updateWindowsRootCertificates()

It turns out Add-on updater was also impacted - I'll release 21.10 candidate this weekend (manual download) before submitting a PR on add-on files repo to resolve this issue (essentially applying Lukasz's fix to this add-on).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Noelia Ruiz
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 10:10 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA updates: any ideas in additoin to expired root certificates?

Hello, yesterday a person who is not subscribed to this list reported me that cannot open this feed with readFeeds 12.0. I was thinking even in adding the ability to specify an user agent for each specific feed, but now I think that this maybe related to this issue, since this was noticed by this person on September 29 and later.
This user is from Canada and I cannot reproduce the error using two different computers with different IP. The reporter doesn't use proxies and gets an error related to certificate, and tested also with other add-ons disabled.
Can someone test readFeeds 12.0 with this URL?

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/rss

Thanks

2021-10-01 17:48 GMT+02:00, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>:
Hello!


It is not a global issue...

I keep to check updates for NVDA e for add-ons without any problem.

However, some brazilian users report the same problem...


Also some users of our Vocalizer report problems when trying to
activate licenses...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 16:34 de 01/10/2021, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error
messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)
<https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894>

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24 hours
across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph






Noelia Ruiz
 

Thanks, I'll send this workaround to the reporter and, probably after
confirmation, I'll release version 12.1 of readFeeds applying this fix
too.


2021-10-01 19:19 GMT+02:00, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
Root cause found: Python 3 has changed the SSL error structure, which Lukasz
fixed in NVDA side in August. The suggested workaround for impacted users
is:

1. Open Python Console.
2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

import updateCheck; updateCheck._updateWindowsRootCertificates()

It turns out Add-on updater was also impacted - I'll release 21.10 candidate
this weekend (manual download) before submitting a PR on add-on files repo
to resolve this issue (essentially applying Lukasz's fix to this add-on).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Noelia Ruiz
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 10:10 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA updates: any ideas in additoin to expired
root certificates?

Hello, yesterday a person who is not subscribed to this list reported me
that cannot open this feed with readFeeds 12.0. I was thinking even in
adding the ability to specify an user agent for each specific feed, but now
I think that this maybe related to this issue, since this was noticed by
this person on September 29 and later.
This user is from Canada and I cannot reproduce the error using two
different computers with different IP. The reporter doesn't use proxies and
gets an error related to certificate, and tested also with other add-ons
disabled.
Can someone test readFeeds 12.0 with this URL?

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/rss

Thanks

2021-10-01 17:48 GMT+02:00, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>:
Hello!


It is not a global issue...

I keep to check updates for NVDA e for add-ons without any problem.

However, some brazilian users report the same problem...


Also some users of our Vocalizer report problems when trying to
activate licenses...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 16:34 de 01/10/2021, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error
messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)
<https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894>

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24 hours
across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph















 

Well yesterday joseph it was all going down, actually last 2 days.

Its ok now but the issue has a tendancy to go away and reappear.

Its done that a day ago well but it then came back, went away and so far hasn't done anything.

Though I have had a load of unexplained outages, my domain shortener cutt.us has been going down and up for the last week but is again stable and usually doesn't do that.

About the time the certification article was posted, a bunch of critical and non critical updates for chromium brousers, including edge, windows optionals, .net updates and a bunch of other stuff came out in the middle of the day which they usually don't do in new zealand so who knows.

We are clutching at straws at this point.



On 2/10/2021 4:34 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)

 

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24 hours across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph


Manolo
 

Hi, I tried and it works fine ...

Greetings!


Brian's Mail list account
 

For the last few weeks some podcast clients have failed on some web sites, tracked down to the pc ones using resources from IE and the site actively blocking IE access older than a certain version.
Half the time in their rush to get ultimate security they cock up legitimate users I find.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2021 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA updates: any ideas in additoin to expired root certificates?


Well yesterday joseph it was all going down, actually last 2 days.

Its ok now but the issue has a tendancy to go away and reappear.

Its done that a day ago well but it then came back, went away and so far
hasn't done anything.

Though I have had a load of unexplained outages, my domain shortener
cutt.us has been going down and up for the last week but is again stable
and usually doesn't do that.

About the time the certification article was posted, a bunch of critical
and non critical updates for chromium brousers, including edge, windows
optionals, .net updates and a bunch of other stuff came out in the
middle of the day which they usually don't do in new zealand so who knows.

We are clutching at straws at this point.



On 2/10/2021 4:34 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error
messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)
<https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894>

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24 hours
across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph





Noelia Ruiz
 

Hello, for now, after seeing the issue mentioned at the end of my
message, since a PR has been merged fixing failures related to SSL and
this is affecting NVDA itself, I'll wait one or two weeks in case a
maintenance version of NVDA is released.
After seeing the merged PR and the conversation on the issue, even an
attached "patch add-on", and since this can be fixed also easily from
the Python console, I believe that this workaround will be needed just
for a very short time and that readFeeds add-on shouldn't handle this
exception permanently, since this may hide future issues related to
this that should be fixed in NVDA. So, looking into benefits and
drawbacks, for now I won't relese a version of readFeeds fixing this.
Let's wait to see what happens, especially in case an NVDA 2021.2.1 is
released.
The mentioned issue is at

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894

2021-10-01 19:24 GMT+02:00, Noelia Ruiz via groups.io
<nrm1977=gmail.com@groups.io>:

Thanks, I'll send this workaround to the reporter and, probably after
confirmation, I'll release version 12.1 of readFeeds applying this fix
too.


2021-10-01 19:19 GMT+02:00, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:
Hi,
Root cause found: Python 3 has changed the SSL error structure, which
Lukasz
fixed in NVDA side in August. The suggested workaround for impacted users
is:

1. Open Python Console.
2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

import updateCheck; updateCheck._updateWindowsRootCertificates()

It turns out Add-on updater was also impacted - I'll release 21.10
candidate
this weekend (manual download) before submitting a PR on add-on files
repo
to resolve this issue (essentially applying Lukasz's fix to this add-on).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Noelia Ruiz
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 10:10 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA updates: any ideas in additoin to expired
root certificates?

Hello, yesterday a person who is not subscribed to this list reported me
that cannot open this feed with readFeeds 12.0. I was thinking even in
adding the ability to specify an user agent for each specific feed, but
now
I think that this maybe related to this issue, since this was noticed by
this person on September 29 and later.
This user is from Canada and I cannot reproduce the error using two
different computers with different IP. The reporter doesn't use proxies
and
gets an error related to certificate, and tested also with other add-ons
disabled.
Can someone test readFeeds 12.0 with this URL?

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/rss

Thanks

2021-10-01 17:48 GMT+02:00, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>:
Hello!


It is not a global issue...

I keep to check updates for NVDA e for add-ons without any problem.

However, some brazilian users report the same problem...


Also some users of our Vocalizer report problems when trying to
activate licenses...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 16:34 de 01/10/2021, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error
messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)
<https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894>

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24 hours
across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph



















 

Well aparently there is another large cert expiring at some point soon so yeah.
As for your other issues about nvda update joseph.
Its probabbly needed for another message, but people are unhappy at
least some of them about the breaking changes being done on nvda even
though some of them are required.
People want their addons to work and get really crankey at least some
on audiogames do when nvda breaks their addons.
Again I don't muck about that much either to defend nvda or the users
or go against either as most of the people on there are childish brats
that whine just about everything under the sun and thats really
putting it as politely as I can.
Some people out there are just looking for a boxing match.

On 03/10/2021, Noelia Ruiz <nrm1977@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, for now, after seeing the issue mentioned at the end of my
message, since a PR has been merged fixing failures related to SSL and
this is affecting NVDA itself, I'll wait one or two weeks in case a
maintenance version of NVDA is released.
After seeing the merged PR and the conversation on the issue, even an
attached "patch add-on", and since this can be fixed also easily from
the Python console, I believe that this workaround will be needed just
for a very short time and that readFeeds add-on shouldn't handle this
exception permanently, since this may hide future issues related to
this that should be fixed in NVDA. So, looking into benefits and
drawbacks, for now I won't relese a version of readFeeds fixing this.
Let's wait to see what happens, especially in case an NVDA 2021.2.1 is
released.
The mentioned issue is at

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894

2021-10-01 19:24 GMT+02:00, Noelia Ruiz via groups.io
<nrm1977=gmail.com@groups.io>:
Thanks, I'll send this workaround to the reporter and, probably after
confirmation, I'll release version 12.1 of readFeeds applying this fix
too.


2021-10-01 19:19 GMT+02:00, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:
Hi,
Root cause found: Python 3 has changed the SSL error structure, which
Lukasz
fixed in NVDA side in August. The suggested workaround for impacted
users
is:

1. Open Python Console.
2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

import updateCheck; updateCheck._updateWindowsRootCertificates()

It turns out Add-on updater was also impacted - I'll release 21.10
candidate
this weekend (manual download) before submitting a PR on add-on files
repo
to resolve this issue (essentially applying Lukasz's fix to this
add-on).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Noelia Ruiz
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 10:10 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA updates: any ideas in additoin to
expired
root certificates?

Hello, yesterday a person who is not subscribed to this list reported me
that cannot open this feed with readFeeds 12.0. I was thinking even in
adding the ability to specify an user agent for each specific feed, but
now
I think that this maybe related to this issue, since this was noticed by
this person on September 29 and later.
This user is from Canada and I cannot reproduce the error using two
different computers with different IP. The reporter doesn't use proxies
and
gets an error related to certificate, and tested also with other add-ons
disabled.
Can someone test readFeeds 12.0 with this URL?

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/rss

Thanks

2021-10-01 17:48 GMT+02:00, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>:
Hello!


It is not a global issue...

I keep to check updates for NVDA e for add-ons without any problem.

However, some brazilian users report the same problem...


Also some users of our Vocalizer report problems when trying to
activate licenses...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 16:34 de 01/10/2021, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error
messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)
<https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894>

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24 hours
across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph























 

Hi,
Some of the breaking changes were planned well in advance - for example, there has been a talk about control types refactor for some time before it made its debut in NVDA 2021.2. The refactored roles and states use enumerations, something that was only a dream when NVDA was powered by Python 2 until early 2020; enumerations were introduced in Python 3.
As for add-ons not working every year, I think several things are intertwined:
1. We are not communicating well: there is a "changes for developers" section that lists upcoming compatibility changes, but these are listed in detail in What's New document. We as add-ons community do not talk about practical changes required from our add-ons until later when the backward compatibility breaking release is being actively developed. I think part of the responsibility of the add-ons community is to discuss incompatible changes early so add-ons can prepare accordingly.
2. We are not communicating the background information effectively: when it comes to backward breaking changes, we mostly focus on "who", "when", "what", and "how". We don't talk about "where" " and "why" - in other words, we just skim through the background information without really explaining why the change is needed, and where these changes are most impactful so people can prepare more effectively. As much as add-ons are responsible for reputation of NVDA in some cases, we as humans are also responsible for reputation of NVDA, and one way to improve our standing is effectively communicating why the change is needed to the audience who need this information the most: add-on authors and users.
In summary, I think one thing we as a community must work on is taking the perspective of users more. We the add-ons community members are known for expertise and innovative solutions. But what can make our community better (and improve the reputation of NVDA in the long term) is constantly looking for ways to communicate more effectively with users. Surely we do need to talk about software internals and sometimes use technical jargon. But what we need to work on is translating such information to audiences who may not have necessary training. In other words, I would like us to start thinking about using people-centric approaches to add-on development, maintenance, and compatibility explanations.
The last bit about people-centric approach is part of the reason why I don't think a backport will occur to fix update check issue. If you fix update check mechanism, how would users who are running an unpatched software release use something they have become used to (update check facility) when asked to upgrade? The next best alternative is manual install. Taking an alpha snapshot detour (install alpha, then reinstall the stable release) might provide a workaround for now, but what about users who would like to upgrade between stable releases? Then the next best alternative is asking users to install the beta release, which means people will need to download NVDA beta manually, which will then update itself to release candidate and then to stable release when declared by NV Access. The next alternative is providing a solution that works across versions, hence the multiple solutions proposed: Python Console, an add-on installer, among others.
I'm saying all this to advise the community that we need to start thinking about our add-ons and responses from the perspective of users more than we have in the past. Editing user interface messages for Clock add-on played a small role in my thinking, but what made this realization possible for me (personally) was thinking about add-on documentation. I would like to dedicate a thread on how to improve add-on documentation to be more user friendly, but suffice to say that we need to work hard on thinking about who the primary audience of our documentation is (I can tell that there are only a few add-on documentation that are written from the perspective of users; I'm told mine are of this type, but I know there are people who write much better documentation and user interface messages than I do). In a way, this also extends to NVDA: why do I focus so much effort on user interface messages and the tone of the user guide? Because it is not developers who are the primary audience - it is an everyday user who would be overwhelmed by jargon (I know that I make the mistake of using jargon in front of users, which I'm aware of and am trying my best to change). So if people-centric approach is key to success of NVDA and add-ons, then I would argue that the way we present backward compatibility information should also be people-centric in nature, because without that mindset, I'm afraid we will be labeled as "elites who lost touch with reality" (consider this a strongly worded advice A.K.A. a warning from a concerned former code contributor).
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, October 2, 2021 9:26 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA updates: any ideas in additoin to expired root certificates?

Well aparently there is another large cert expiring at some point soon so yeah.
As for your other issues about nvda update joseph.
Its probabbly needed for another message, but people are unhappy at least some of them about the breaking changes being done on nvda even though some of them are required.
People want their addons to work and get really crankey at least some on audiogames do when nvda breaks their addons.
Again I don't muck about that much either to defend nvda or the users or go against either as most of the people on there are childish brats that whine just about everything under the sun and thats really putting it as politely as I can.
Some people out there are just looking for a boxing match.

On 03/10/2021, Noelia Ruiz <nrm1977@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, for now, after seeing the issue mentioned at the end of my
message, since a PR has been merged fixing failures related to SSL and
this is affecting NVDA itself, I'll wait one or two weeks in case a
maintenance version of NVDA is released.
After seeing the merged PR and the conversation on the issue, even an
attached "patch add-on", and since this can be fixed also easily from
the Python console, I believe that this workaround will be needed just
for a very short time and that readFeeds add-on shouldn't handle this
exception permanently, since this may hide future issues related to
this that should be fixed in NVDA. So, looking into benefits and
drawbacks, for now I won't relese a version of readFeeds fixing this.
Let's wait to see what happens, especially in case an NVDA 2021.2.1 is
released.
The mentioned issue is at

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894

2021-10-01 19:24 GMT+02:00, Noelia Ruiz via groups.io
<nrm1977=gmail.com@groups.io>:
Thanks, I'll send this workaround to the reporter and, probably after
confirmation, I'll release version 12.1 of readFeeds applying this
fix too.


2021-10-01 19:19 GMT+02:00, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:
Hi,
Root cause found: Python 3 has changed the SSL error structure,
which Lukasz fixed in NVDA side in August. The suggested workaround
for impacted users
is:

1. Open Python Console.
2. Type the following as exactly as shown:

import updateCheck; updateCheck._updateWindowsRootCertificates()

It turns out Add-on updater was also impacted - I'll release 21.10
candidate this weekend (manual download) before submitting a PR on
add-on files repo to resolve this issue (essentially applying
Lukasz's fix to this add-on).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
<nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Noelia Ruiz
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 10:10 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] NVDA updates: any ideas in additoin to
expired root certificates?

Hello, yesterday a person who is not subscribed to this list
reported me that cannot open this feed with readFeeds 12.0. I was
thinking even in adding the ability to specify an user agent for
each specific feed, but now I think that this maybe related to this
issue, since this was noticed by this person on September 29 and
later.
This user is from Canada and I cannot reproduce the error using two
different computers with different IP. The reporter doesn't use
proxies and gets an error related to certificate, and tested also
with other add-ons disabled.
Can someone test readFeeds 12.0 with this URL?

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/rss

Thanks

2021-10-01 17:48 GMT+02:00, Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>:
Hello!


It is not a global issue...

I keep to check updates for NVDA e for add-ons without any problem.

However, some brazilian users report the same problem...


Also some users of our Vocalizer report problems when trying to
activate licenses...


Rui Fontes

Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 16:34 de 01/10/2021, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi all,

I’m tracking the following issue:

Manual attempts to update NVDA, or NVDA Add-Ons, is throwing error
messages · Issue #12894 · nvaccess/nvda (github.com)
<https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/12894>

Has anyone experienced the issue described within the last 24
hours across Windows versions and/or NVDA releases?

Cheers,

Joseph