locked Re: Volume Manager v0.1


 

I agree, of course if the authors are willing to fix their mistakes thats a different story.

If not well.

On the otherside, we are not a comercial entity, else, it will be, you can't run x addon on x version of windows because you need to run it with jaws and a whole lot of extra stuff you don't need because thats how the licence works type deal.

On 20/05/2019 3:54 PM, Noelia Ruiz wrote:
I strongly agree with Carter: add-ons posted on this list are subject to possible reviews and feedback from the whole community, even when authors don't request this. And if add-ons not passing license and copyright are automatically refused for legal reasons, without small chance to more considerations, I think we should refuse add-ons in case we have reasons to consider that they haven't been developed following certain values, for ethical reasons too, just as principles, even without thinking in consequences.
Obviously, Python or NVDA modules, methods and properties, not just external libraries, aren't writen by add-on authors in most cases, and this is needed and accepted without question.
Now let's think about consequences: let's imagin that someone would bring different add-ons with similar functionality respect the add-ons posted on the website or respect add-ons being reviewed, without consulting people who has been working previously on this. Obviously, if the new similar add-ons were accepted, future similar add-ons could take advantage of the add-ons accepted later, and so on. This wouldn't be respectful with previous works, since exploring the possibility of collaboration could bring more potential to the previous and also to the future work. And if community, included website maintainers, accept this, it would imply to take time in a non efficient manner, focusing on less creative tasks from the point of view of functionality if this was repeated.
Also, maintaining similar add-ons can make the website less usable since people would find different files for similar purposes, and even they can install them all together. And obviously, even if an add-on could be better from a previous existing one, if the first author has not been consulted, it would be inacceptable to choose the newest add-on for the website, for ethical principles and respectfulness to both authors and the whole community.
Personally, if I create an add-on based on previous ideas and adding a few features, I would strongly prefer it was not accepted. I prefer to be a person with small knowing, but not producing poor or shoddy things, instead of creating something more interesting, not existing in the community.


Cheers


El 20/05/2019 a las 4:27, Carter Temm escribió:
Before we begin, I'd like to ask for the opinion of other list members
on this topic. I find it rather difficult to believe that I stand
alone in my objections. If I do happen to stand alone, which I find
somewhat difficult to believe, I will entirely drop it. But until
then, I can't help seeing the classic straw man fallacy and refusal to
get to the bottom of my claims. As much as I'd like to outright attack
what OP is saying here, I'll stick to the crux of the issue.

no one can restrict people in open source community to do something.
No one can technically restrict you, anywhere, from doing anything.
It's the psychological consequences that act as our restrictions. If
you wanted to, you could make a pull request replacing emacs with vim.
As was done at https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/pull/6
However, it wasn't merged for obvious reasons. Nobody here has the
ability to prevent you from throwing whatever you wanted up on github,
add-on or twelve year-old Tic-Tac-Toe prototype. and that is not, and
has never been, the intention. We here do have the ability to
influence what is reviewed and therefore ends up hitting the community
NVDA add-on site. We as a community have the ability to influence how
we're collectively perceived.

So yeah, you are partially right. You can do anything. You just might
have to face the consequences here, that being the possibility of
exclusion from the main add-on site while the original developer's
product is accepted. There's also the possible tarnishing of a
reputation, but that's perspective.

anyway i will repeat, libraries which are using are not written by
addon author and thus you can't accent on this.
Can you elaborate? I have an idea of the point you might be attempting
to communicate, but would rather hold off until I'm sure I'm not
firing in the wrong direction.

As you have undoubtedly noticed by now, I consider this a pretty big
deal from an ethical standpoint thanks to having been the target more
times than I want to recall. It's just plain insolence and leaves a
bad aftertaste for the entire community.


On 5/19/19, Beqa Gozalishvili <beqaprogger@gmail.com> wrote:
we didn't break anything.

we wanted to do something, we did.
we wanted to release an addon, we released.

no one can restrict people in open source community to do something.

if you were looking at instant translate, it was and is using google
translate to translate text.
it was released with gtranslate and was temporarily replaced with
yatranslate which was then replaced again with gtranslate.


anyway i will repeat, libraries which are using are not written by
addon author and thus you can't accent on this.

On 5/20/19, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
I'd like toolbar explorer in the core as with the announcements of copy
paste etc, rather than use an add on. I think before we all get hot under
the collar at slightly inept pR, presumably not intended to be  annoying
to

anyone folk need to look at features and see exactly what might be better
in

core.
  Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
Newsgroup monitored: alt.comp.blind-users
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norberto Sousa" <nsousa2007@gmail.com>
To: <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2019 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] Volume Manager v0.1


Hi,

As rui wrote, there are really many similar addons.
Just before reading this message I was checking the addons Page and
copied
the following addons from Tony Malykh to suggest to include it in just
one.
There are really lots of addons what doubles the keystrokes. And some of
such functionalities shoud have been already included to NVDA core.
The addons are:
IndentNav
BrowserNav

By the way I would like to ask if anybody is working on addon for excel.

Regards,
NSousa

Em dom, 19 de mai de 2019 às 19:01, Rui Fontes
<rui.fontes@tiflotecnia.com>
escreveu:

Hello!

1 - Several functionalities have several addons...

At least, and not searching all addons:
List of Systray elements;
Reading/writing emoticons/complex symbols;
Translation;
Announcemente of copy/paste commands and so on...

What's the point?
Include the functionality on a package, make it differently, etc...

What's the problem?
For me, none...
All add-ons code is open source...
In this case, one person took advantage of an idea and have develloped a
totally new add-on...
It is bad? No...
Could he have asked the author of the idea if he wants to cooperate in
the add-on in a different way? Yes, but is not mandatory...

2 -     Children and stepchildren
Sometimes it seems that in this community some of us are legal children
and others are stepchildrens or not legal children...

Why I say this?
Remember what happened with the add-on NVDAExtensionGlobalPlugin...
It was not approved because the author did not want to break it in
several small add-ons...
There are any law/directive or what else to do not allow packages of
add-ons?
If such exists, Joseph Lee is one of the members that do not comply with
such normative...

I have released 3 add-ons...
The first one was just reviewed by Derek, because no one else did it...
The second, was reviewed by Abdel, because he have wrote most part of
the code...
The third, the simplest, no one review it so far...

Instead of only think in this new add-on from Beqa, please think also in
waht I have wrote...

Best regards,

Rui Fontes




Às 16:53 de 19/05/2019, Joseph Lee escreveu:
Hi all,
Carter raised some good questions, including a point about ethics. I
have forwarded his concerns to other reviewers for further
consideration.
Depending on comments from other reviewers and the community, one or
more
of the following will happen:
1. The add-on may receive further reviews, including a proper basic
review with at least one condition to be fulfilled, which includes
hearing
from author of Sound Manager.
2. The add-on may be rejected. If rejected, it may still go through
basic review, or rejected outright without further reviews.
3. The author will be given an offlist notice, including a suggestion
to
either apologize to the original author and/or collaborate.
Because of the fact that a question of ethics was raised, which may
hinge our reputation, I would like to request that users do NOT provide
feedback except for issues of ethics raised by Carter for a while. Note
that this request is sent from perspectives of an add-on reviewer, NVDA
contributor, and the list owner/head moderator.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io <
nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io> On Behalf Of Carter Temm
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2019 8:38 AM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] Volume Manager v0.1

From what I've been given thus far, feel free to provide
corrections,
this really just sounds like an attempt to steal glory. The features
referenced could easily be contributed back to give a better product
overall, nah?

While you didn't technically break the law, under the default
copyright
license seeing as nothing else was provided on the original repo, most
people might consider this rather unethical.
Now there is the small possibility that we haven't been given the
entire
situation, so I'm curious about the following.

1. Was Yannick consulted before creation of the add-on? Furthermore,
is
he in support of this one? Ideas are ideas, but outright stealing them
so
close to a new release is far from okay in my eyes. If I were the
original
dev, I would be extremely far from pleased. Code rewrite
notwithstanding.
2. Is there an explicit reason you've decided not to help Yannick out
directly, in the form of PR's, issues or even suggestions?
feature which it had is one of other features which our addon
includes
and code is written from scratch
This doesn't really answer the question, nor does it provide a reason
behind deciding to sit down and essentially copy an idea currently
undergoing review.


On 5/19/19, Michal Rada <michal@michalrada.cz> wrote:
Hi, many thanks for this usefull plugin.
Michal

Odesláno z aplikace Pošta pro Windows 10

Od: Beqa Gozalishvili
Odesláno:neděle 19. května 2019 16:44
Komu: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io; Doug Lee
Předmět: Re: [nvda-addons] Volume Manager v0.1

hello.

we included credits in readme of an addon.

about not helping, feature which it had is one of other features
which
our addon includes and code is written from scratch, so nothing was
left from a previous addon.

On 5/19/19, Doug Lee <nvda@dlee.org> wrote:
I'm afraid I may be missing some context here, so my apologies if my
questions seem a little strange, but...

Beqa said:
a new addon called VolumeManager has been released.
a big thanks to an author of SoundManager from which idea of
controlling volume of different applications was taken.
addon was re-written from scratch and for this reason we decided to
release it on our own.
My email archive credits the authorship of the SoundManager add-on
to
Yannick PLASSIARD <plassiardyannick@gmail.com>.

So two questions: Why not name the author in this email, and why
rewrite rather than helping with the original project?

On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 03:23:39PM +0400, Beqa Gozalishvili wrote:
hello all.

a new addon called VolumeManager has been released.

a big thanks to an author of SoundManager from which idea of
controlling volume of different applications was taken.

addon was re-written from scratch and for this reason we decided to
release it on our own.

github repo is at:
https://github.com/beqabeqa473/volumeManager

and download link is:
https://github.com/beqabeqa473/VolumeManager/releases/download/v0.1/V
olumeManager-0.1.nvda-addon



--
Doug Lee                 dgl@dlee.org
http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com
http://www.LevelAccess.com
Freedom is not the ability to have what we want. Freedom is merely
the ability to seek it.  To be free defines what we can do, not what
we can get.
(03/28/05)




--
with best regards beqa









--
Norberto Inácio de Sousa
Consultor de acessibilidade Web e digital;
Formador de acessibilidade, informática e línguas;
https://www.linkedin.com/in/norberto-in%C3%A1cio-de-sousa-a129ab4b/
Tlm. 962836137








--
with best regards beqa




.

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