Re: Please do not attack this messenger. Why have NVDA add-ons not done better?


 

Well, the easiest way is to have  a glossery of all the jargon and their meanings.

If someone can send me all the jargon and meanings I can compile that I guess or search for that on google or something.

I'd like to try to make a dictionary or glossery document so if anyone wants to send me all the words maybe thats something I can do.

I've never done that but it can't be to hard to make a list of words in notepad, and maybe get someone that wants to make a professional document handle that, I could also try audio of that to.

So in that case that part is doable.

I have a few days I can do stuff where I have nothing on from boxingday on so I can probably do that while listening to christmas radio.

On 24/12/2020 2:09 am, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
I agree there needs to be somebody out there who can de mystify all the jargon that the experts talk about on the developer list and explain exactly what is going on and the underlying reasons etc.

Back in the day of home computers you could buy in the high street and write software on directly, there were authors who were very good at that sort of de mystification, but now everything has returned to the close black box way for consumers.
I mean I find merely understanding dos batch files seems to astound otherwise intelligent people!
They never realised that writing software did not need  a huge brain and lots of qualifications.
 I don't want to hi jack this thread, I was merely demonstrating the kind of problems we now have with the historical context we lie in now.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Meisam Amini" <meisamamini21@gmail.com>
To: <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] Please do not attack this messenger. Why have NVDA add-ons not done better?


I'm a beginner and just learning to write add-ons. From my point of
view the biggest problem is the lack of documentation and tutorials.
And the development for NVDA not being very non-professional
programmer friendly.

I dabbled in writing scripts for JAWS a bit some time ago, and a very
pleasant part of it was a complete tutorial and a single .chm
reference file. The file included categorized documentation for every
single function used in scripting for JAWS.

Almost every tech savvy person can write a simple script for JAWS
after learning how to, but only a relatively advanced Python
programmer can write add-ons for NVDA.

I love NVDA and hope it grows more and more, for that I think the
community needs to put some effort on creating more and better
documentation and tutorials.

Also, I guess there are a lot of add-ons that haven't been posted on
the official page.

On 12/23/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
To be honest, the current infrastructure for the addons system sucks.

I think its being updated though.

To submit to community, it needs to be done manually at some point.

I really think there should be a way to have repositories of things
official and not, I mean linux does it.

We did sadly have blindextra and those at the top want to keep things
secure.

Saying that, there are more unofficial and perfectly legal addons out
there which are not on the main system.

There are also alegal ones, older ones, etc.

I am not sure how to handle this but there is actually more out there
than is on the main page.



On 23/12/2020 8:19 pm, Héctor Javier Benítez Corredera wrote:

Good morning. It is very simple.

I think I have installed 4 or 5 official accessories.

Unofficial I have a lot, you have to wonder why the developers do not
even want to appear here.

A month ago I submitted an add-on for review which only Paul replied
that it overlapped with an option in his NVDAExtensionGlobal add-on to
which I replied that it did not.

Yesterday, the Jose Manuel Proxy add-on was also presented which has
not even received a comment, seeming to me to be an add-on that even
solves an issue that has been open for years in the core of NVDA.

Well my opinion is simple, we behave like children in the school yard
by developers of this community and that in the long run comes in
prejudice of the whole community.

It seems to me that it is not very serious to screen who can have an
official complement and who can't. That in the end puts the developers
off.

And I'm very sorry for that, but I'm leaving my add-ons to the
Hispanic community and if someone likes them, I don't care if they are
official or not, but I'm very sorry and I'm not going to allow people
in this community to look down on me.

I think that this approach could also be added to the list of why NVDA
is not progressing more and better and it is really a shame that it is
so difficult to share knowledge through nets that in the end it is a
detriment.
Greetings

El 23/12/2020 a las 7:33, Reef Turner escribió:
Hi Jamal,

I think this is a good conversation to have, we may be able to
identify small ways that the ecosystem can be improved immediately,
or a road map for longer term goals. I'll be interested to hear the
different opinions that add-on authors have.

Jamal, could you expand on your own experience? What has motivated
you to write add-ons / extensions / scripts for JAWS and Window-Eyes?

Reef Turner
Software Developer - NV Access

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 13:40, Jamal Mazrui <jamal@empowermentzone.com
<mailto:jamal@empowermentzone.com>> wrote:

    I write this message in an attempt to provoke both thoughts and
    solutions. If I am attacked as a result, it is misplaced. For
    years, I
    have wanted NVDA to succeed in 3rd party extensions more than any
    previous screen reader. Its open source nature made me hopeful,
    but for
    whatever reasons, it has under-performed in this area so far.


    As background, I have probably written and shared more JAWS
    scripts than
    anyone after accounting for Freedom Scientific, Doug Lee, and Brian
    Hartgen. I have bonafides on this issue.


    I also developed more Window-Eyes apps/scripts than anyone after
    GW Micro.


    I love the open source nature of NVDA; its use of one of the most
    popular programming languages today, having a wealth of community
    packages to do almost anything; and the folks on this list who
    help one
    another in enabling the screen reader to do more.


    When I visit the official add-ons page, however, I am struck by a
    couple
    of things. There are not nearly the number of extensions that I
    would
    expect for a screen reader that has had an API for several
    years. The
    sophistication of the packages that do exist, moreover, are usually
    quite limited.


    Again, my purpose is not to insult NVDA core developers, extension
    developers, or satisfied users. I have no interest in doing so. It
    would be easier just to say nothing while carrying these
    observations
    and not finding evidence to change them.


    There are probably multiple explanations for this situation. I will
    propose just one at this time. The complexity for creating an
    extension, whether app-specific or global, is too high. Partly,
    this is
    because of the amount and sophistication of the code required.
    Partly
    it is because of the lack of developer documentation, including
    tutorials, that keep pace with the screen reader.


    I hope this message is taken in the spirit in which it is
    intended. Why
    are the quantity and sophistication of NVDA extensions not
    substantially
    greater today? What can be done to fundamentally change this
    pattern?


    Jamal
















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