Re: Please do not attack this messenger. Why have NVDA add-ons not done better?


 

Hi brian, I agree with you.

However, our biggest issue is the professional support and the fact some may have issue with the security of opensource.

Jaws has had the market for a lot of things.

And nvda is not designed to do everything.

I agree about doing to much.

I could help with doing documentation especially if its done by someone in another language translated to english and maybe edit it and make it work, maybe test, maybe review but I don't use a lot of programs myself.

I do a lot of tests for dolphin, and I have told them I only do desktop and not really office because I don't use it.

So my workload is quite small but I do help where I can.

On 24/12/2020 2:03 am, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
I don't think if what you perceive might seem that way to you, that this is in any way intentional at all. It seems, as an observer for many years that the various programmers here are add on writers only in their spare time, and that their paid work often curtails the involvement they can offer. As with any voluntary work, the tendency is to take on too much, with difficult choices having to be made when work gets busy in order to preserve sanity so to speak. I think I'm right in saying that a lot of Jaws scripts are not free. Instead of  app modules as nvda has, Jaws has had to have scripts written and some are included, and the price reflects this, and some can be purchased while yes, some are free. The main people paying for scripts are nearly always employers or a government entity as part of provision  of adjustments to enable blind people to get and retain work. This is why Jaws mostly exists I feel. Although not so much now, the open source aspect of NVDA was frowned upon by admins, now that Microsoft themselves include  open source in some apps, there is little to argue about. So maybe somebody needs to set up for paid for add ons supplying to companies for their bespoke software, or something like that?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Héctor Javier Benítez Corredera" <hebolah@gmail.com>
To: <nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda-addons] Please do not attack this messenger. Why have NVDA add-ons not done better?


Good morning. It is very simple.

I think I have installed 4 or 5 official accessories.

Unofficial I have a lot, you have to wonder why the developers do not
even want to appear here.

A month ago I submitted an add-on for review which only Paul replied
that it overlapped with an option in his NVDAExtensionGlobal add-on to
which I replied that it did not.

Yesterday, the Jose Manuel Proxy add-on was also presented which has not
even received a comment, seeming to me to be an add-on that even solves
an issue that has been open for years in the core of NVDA.

Well my opinion is simple, we behave like children in the school yard by
developers of this community and that in the long run comes in prejudice
of the whole community.

It seems to me that it is not very serious to screen who can have an
official complement and who can't. That in the end puts the developers off.

And I'm very sorry for that, but I'm leaving my add-ons to the Hispanic
community and if someone likes them, I don't care if they are official
or not, but I'm very sorry and I'm not going to allow people in this
community to look down on me.

I think that this approach could also be added to the list of why NVDA
is not progressing more and better and it is really a shame that it is
so difficult to share knowledge through nets that in the end it is a
detriment.
Greetings

El 23/12/2020 a las 7:33, Reef Turner escribió:
Hi Jamal,

I think this is a good conversation to have, we may be able to
identify small ways that the ecosystem can be improved immediately, or
a road map for longer term goals. I'll be interested to hear the
different opinions that add-on authors have.

Jamal, could you expand on your own experience? What has motivated you
to write add-ons / extensions / scripts for JAWS and Window-Eyes?

Reef Turner
Software Developer - NV Access

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 at 13:40, Jamal Mazrui <jamal@empowermentzone.com
<mailto:jamal@empowermentzone.com>> wrote:

    I write this message in an attempt to provoke both thoughts and
    solutions. If I am attacked as a result, it is misplaced. For
    years, I
    have wanted NVDA to succeed in 3rd party extensions more than any
    previous screen reader. Its open source nature made me hopeful,
    but for
    whatever reasons, it has under-performed in this area so far.


    As background, I have probably written and shared more JAWS
    scripts than
    anyone after accounting for Freedom Scientific, Doug Lee, and Brian
    Hartgen. I have bonafides on this issue.


    I also developed more Window-Eyes apps/scripts than anyone after
    GW Micro.


    I love the open source nature of NVDA; its use of one of the most
    popular programming languages today, having a wealth of community
    packages to do almost anything; and the folks on this list who
    help one
    another in enabling the screen reader to do more.


    When I visit the official add-ons page, however, I am struck by a
    couple
    of things. There are not nearly the number of extensions that I
    would
    expect for a screen reader that has had an API for several years.
    The
    sophistication of the packages that do exist, moreover, are usually
    quite limited.


    Again, my purpose is not to insult NVDA core developers, extension
    developers, or satisfied users. I have no interest in doing so. It
    would be easier just to say nothing while carrying these observations
    and not finding evidence to change them.


    There are probably multiple explanations for this situation. I will
    propose just one at this time. The complexity for creating an
    extension, whether app-specific or global, is too high. Partly,
    this is
    because of the amount and sophistication of the code required.
    Partly
    it is because of the lack of developer documentation, including
    tutorials, that keep pace with the screen reader.


    I hope this message is taken in the spirit in which it is
    intended. Why
    are the quantity and sophistication of NVDA extensions not
    substantially
    greater today? What can be done to fundamentally change this pattern?


    Jamal













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